Season 4, Episode 12: *Mini* Getting Back into the Workforce

When Your Last Job Title Was “Director of Keeping Everyone Alive”

Two episode drops in one day?? What the what??

This special mini episode is a quick (but mighty!) follow-up to Season 4, Episode 11 about stepping out of the workforce to care for kids.

What happens when you’re ready to work again (or just need to for $$$)? You might not be sure how to start.

What is a TPS report again?

Pulled from our conversation with career development expert Susanne Aronowitz, Sara, Caitlin and Susanne brainstorm practical ideas for rebuilding your network (even if all your old work contacts were handwritten in a 1997 Filofax), translating the skills you developed during your “break” into powerful professional strengths, and finding small opportunities that can lead to bigger roles.

It’s short! (ie. mini) but might spark some of your own ideas and gives you full permission to start exactly where you are.

You can do it!

Ask us your dumb investing and finance questions, or just say hi! on our Ask Us page!

We have the social medias!! Here’s our Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn.

This episode was edited by our co-producer Kelly West. Music by Bad Bad Hats and Devmo.

Transcripts for Season 4, Episode 12: Mini - Getting Back into the Workforce

Caitlin [00:00:06] Welcome to Women on the Verge of a Financial Breakthrough, where we're figuring out finance one dumb question at a time. I'm Caitlin Meredith, a mediator and coach based in the Bay Area.

Sara [00:00:18] Sara Glakas, investor, advisor, and founder of Blackburn Financial, and the Austin Women's Investing Group, which you can find on Meetup.

Caitlin [00:00:27] On the verge. This is a mini episode with our guest, Susanne Aronowitz from episode three about salary negotiations. We thought it would be a good follow-up for the episode from last week about leaving the workforce and what you should think about before doing that. Enjoy. And now there's a divorce happening and they have to show that they're gonna try to, you know, be an earner again. And they're kind they don't know what posture to have, you know, brutal honesty. I'm going through a divorce, I've been out, I'm a little, but I'm I'm really good at these things, or to like rebrand, I've been a house manager, you know. And how to sort of approach going back into the job force. And there's some of these things that are unique, like if you were a lawyer before, but you haven't practiced and you kept haven't kept up your, you know, continue even your license, that might be too high. So you shift industries, but what are it? What's in the universe of sort of considerations for those people, often women re-entering their workforce. Feeling just like they're really on a back foot if that's an expression.

Susanne [00:02:01] Yeah, it's hard. And I if also their their confidence is often not great. Right. Because they've just been through this traumatic experience and also, you know, like all for all the reasons you talked about. So where to begin? There are resources out there, websites, organizations, newsletters, whatever that are designed to help folks who are re-entering the job force. Those resources have great language around that and how to put when they're lots of great testimonials from folks who have already navigated that transition. I mean, there are plenty of people who have also just stepped out of the paid labor market for family care, other kinds of responsibilities, care for an elder, k care for kids, care for themselves, you know, that are now re-entering the force after a gap. And so there's lots of great resources there. I I do think you would then want to look for other ways of or additional ways of demonstrating value. So again, look at the jobs. What are the skills and qualities they're seeking? Have you done those things, but maybe in a different setting, a non-traditional setting? So maybe, you know, you were a officer in your PTA or in a community organization. You helped run a fundraiser, you helped run a volunteer day, you did, you know, you ran the social media channel for your, you know, civic organization, whatever it is that you may have just done. As a volunteer out of the goodness of your heart, but you built skills and you have something to show for it. Those are things you might talk about to an employer, use as evidence that you're qualified for the job. It's also helpful if you can find ways to stay current or get current with the industry that you're interested in. So make sure you are reading whatever publications there are, listening to whatever podcasts, right? So you want to, in those informational interviews I talked about earlier, ask colleagues like who are the thought leaders that they follow? What do they consume to stay current on developments in the field? Make sure you are consuming those things so that you can at the very least talk the talk when you go on an interview. You want to show them you're up to date and you know what's going on and that you haven't missed a beat. If you like to write or speak, see if you can create content, right? You can write an article and post it on your own LinkedIn feed. Find ways of putting content in the world that associate you with the industry or subject matter you want folks to know you have some knowledge in. So you're creating a track record where one might not have existed before because the work you were doing was not in a traditional employment setting. Let people know this is what you're doing and what you're interested in, and talk to You know, old classmates, friends, colleagues, people you volunteer with, people in your community. These are all people who know that you're smart and capable. And if they can introduce you, like, oh, this is Caitlin. She just organized this thing in our community. She's great. You should talk to her. That will help. Like, you know, where you have a real introduction, proceed a resume, like that that can be really, really helpful. So those are some strategies I will encourage folks to do. I don't know that I do the clever like CEO of the household. Like, I don't know, it seems corny. But you could put like on your resume, if there is a gap, you might, you know, like personal sabbatical or you know, took time to care for a family member, or you know, something to explain the gap. I would not make more of it than it is. If it's about a medical issue, it's they're not really supposed to ask anyway. So it's a way to account for the time without having to go into a lot of detail. I don't know that I would lead with I've just been through a really traumatic disruption in my household, because I I just don't know that I don't want an employer to question whether you are ready to make this kind of commitment and whether you have the resources. I don't want them to make assumptions like, oh, now you're a one parent household. What happens when kid gets sick? What happens when ex spouse calls you into court? Like, I I I just don't want that to enter into I mean. I I don't know how you advise your clients, but those are things that I'd be wary of.

Sara [00:06:27] Yeah, Caitlin, how do you advise your clients to navigate that? I'm sure it's on a case by case basis.

Caitlin [00:06:32] But yeah. I think it using a lot of what Suzanne said in terms of like who do you know? Who's in your phone right now that you have never thought to ask about these things because you know them in this completely different context. Like sit down and write all the adults you're in contact with through your life right now, whether it's your kids or some your hobby, whatever, write those names down and call them each up and be like, Hey, what do you do? Everyone wants to talk about themselves. And so just like work your community for and that sounds sort of like cynical, but it's just more like, oh, I'm gonna discover you in this whole different context and see and learn. Just learn what your path has been. Anyone wants to tell you how they started doing what they're doing now. And you can get ideas like, oh, I didn't know there was a class about that. So anything from like, oh, I'll volunteer at that place to, oh, their business is looking for a receptionist. And that's not a bad idea right now as I'm trying to get some work experience. So that's the first place I tell people to start. But I I really what you said, they don't come in with a lot of confidence. That is also something that we talk about is like they already feel like who would want not because they're bad, like there's just a bunch of things have happened and I specifically the women that I'm working with really wish they hadn't gotten completely out of the workforce. They're sort of kicking themselves that they weren't watching out for themselves in the future. But of course they didn't expect to go through a divorce either. So they were working with the information they had at the time and they'll just continue to have to do that. Yeah.

Sara [00:08:21] I mean, I think I'll add like one more thing to that, Caitlin, that when you're re-entering the workforce, being forthcoming with that you are looking for work. And you're telling your friends and you're kind of relying on your friends, but I would I would kind of assume that your friends aren't your closest friends who are your confidants who know all of the messy stuff are actually not the people that you're trying to give this information to. They will know, but it's casual acquaintances who you worked with 10 years ago who are like, oh yeah, like Sara's pretty cool. I think that she would generally like this other person who I know is looking for someone. I'll just put them in touch, right? Where it's low stakes. You're not like asking your closest friends and family to find you a job.

Caitlin [00:09:07] Yeah.

Sara [00:09:07] You're just in every conversation mentioning that you're looking for something and it'll actually be like the friend of a friend who likes you and thinks of you, who might make that connection, versus like mobilizing like all of the people who are closest to you to help find you something perfect. That it's like a it's a version of networking that people don't usually think of as networking.

Susanne [00:09:31] Such a good point. It's true. It's the strength of weak ties. And there's a lot documented about that. Yes here. And and even to don't be afraid to tell your love, like your loved ones, they've been with you through the drama. They understand, but it may not occur to them, oh, right, you're ready to go to work. Or what it is you're looking for. Maybe they think of you in one box and you're trying to jump into a different box. So don't be afraid to let your close people know I'm ready to go back to work. These are the kinds of things I'm looking for, or even you know me. What do you think I'd be good at? Like this is a real opportunity to reinvent myself. What do you see me doing? And then say, do you know anyone who does that? Could you make an introduction to, oh yeah, you have that brother-in-law who does that, oh yeah, you have that neighbor who does that. Could you introduce me? Like, so don't be afraid to ask for that. And then let people know what you want. So it's not just I'm looking for work, but you want to give them an idea of what kind of work. So when they hear something about it, they think, this was what Fran was talking about. Be a good listener too, because if you have friends or colleagues who run their own businesses or who have hiring authority and you hear them complaining because they're so busy, maybe you could offer to, hey, you know, you I noticed you've been really busy lately. I have some time available. I'd love to come and help. You know, maybe it starts on a part-time basis. Like it's something that's mutually beneficial, where you're a trusted person, they know you and know you're smart and capable. And they, you know, it didn't occur to them that they could hire someone 15 hours a week to help with this need that they have. And that's a way to get back into the market. Now you have an employer who could be a reference for the next job, the full time job, whatever it is. And you start having some revenue come in. And you always want to look for that mutually beneficial thing.

Sara [00:11:29] I noticed that you did not mention go back to school or get an advanced degree or a different degree. Is that did you purposefully leave that out? Like, or do you think that there's I actually like this is one of the more common things that I see not necessarily as an advisor, but like as part of like the OS Women's Investing Group or conversations around women and money are the women that go back to school to get a new degree, and it is so expensive. And it just seems very risky, but it's kind of undertaken in a way that people aren't seeing the risk that it actually is.

Susanne [00:12:15] Yes. So going back to school might be helpful, but it is not the shiny magic object for everyone and it comes at a big cost. And so sometimes people need to work now. They don't have two years to wait plus pay expensive tuition and go in debt. Again, I go back to the conversations they're having with people in the field they want to enter or reenter to see what are the credentials that really resonate with those employers and why. And so if it turns out to access the jobs they want, they really need that degree, that credential, a certification, whatever license, whatever it is, then that might make more sense to invest the time and money because they see the direct connection to achieving their goals. But if it's just a place to hide for two years while they figure it out and they're going in debt, that makes me very nervous. There might be certain certificates, certain credentials that are pretty quick and easy, relatively easy to get, where it might be you take a it's a three month.

Sara [00:13:18] Yeah.

Susanne [00:13:19] And now you have something that's current and it's a recognized credential in your field, that might be worth doing. I mean, and a degree might be worth doing too. Like, I mean, I worked with lots of people who went to law school as a second or third career. Turned out to be fantastic for them. So it's it's not that's not my concern. It's more make sure you know why you're doing it and what the financial and time and energy costs would or investment would be. And don't assume it's just magic that it will because one of the things, and we talked about this in Caitlin's class, like I'll use law as an example. You go back to school to get a law degree. Well, the law degree is the minimum requirement to get a job as a lawyer. So having the degree is a great accomplishment, but employers are not impressed by it because it is they won't hire you without it. You still have to distinguish yourself beyond that. So if someone is considering school as a way to pivot, great. Just understand all the implications and and how employers would view it.

Caitlin [00:14:24] I to add on to that as someone who collects master's degrees.

Sara [00:14:30] Sorry, Caitlin.

Caitlin [00:14:32] You're coming for me, Sara. I didn't I thought of it as like this amazing place to learn and meet people, which it was each time. That is a very different thing than at the end of it, the program has a 90% success rate in getting you a job. Like the connections you'll make in this program will definitely lead to jobs. For mine, I did make connections through it, but it was not guaranteed. It was a lot of what I did in each of those programs. And it wasn't like, like as you say, having that master's degree was the bare minimum then to go out and look for the things. There wasn't like a funnel into some industry and the people that I met there were gonna connect me. That was not a given. And so at this point, I would have a lot more questions for myself about like, how will I get a job in two years? Just having this degree will not be enough.

Susanne [00:15:29] No. I think the upside might be that it gives you an opportunity to do like internships or short term jobs, gives you that cover. So you're building work experience. But if you don't do that, so you only have the academic experience, the it makes the gap wider, you know, in terms of employment. And so when you finally enter the paid workforce, it's that much longer that you've been away from the current technology and current workplace culture and you know, all of those things. It just it can be a challenge, but it could also be an opportunity if it gives you access to these other kinds of jobs and skills that you wouldn't have had but for being in that academic program.

Caitlin [00:16:15] Do you have a question about finance or investing? Send it to us in an email or voice memo to our website, womenontheverge.com. Don't worry, Sara will answer it. I won't.

Sara [00:16:26] Hey, women on the verge, we want you to know that economic abuse isn't always obvious, but it's a powerful form of control. Maybe a partner limits your access to money, sabotages your work, or racks up debt in your name. If any of this feels familiar, please know you're not alone, and support is out there. Learn more at thehotline.org or call 800-799-SAFE.

Caitlin [00:16:51] Our podcast is edited by our co producer Kelly West with music by Bad Bad Hats and Devmo.

Sara [00:17:11] This podcast contains general information that is not suitable for everyone. The information contained herein should not be construed as personalized investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. There is no guarantee that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast will come to pass. Investing in the stock market involves gains and losses and may not be suitable for all investors. Information presented herein is subject to change without notice and should not be considered as a solicitation to buy or sell any security.